Dec. 24, 2020

Making Space for the New

In our final episode of the year, we speak with Rosemary Flannery, about how to go from clutter to clarity while clearing a path to happiness and making space for more grace, ease and joy. This is the perfect episode to inspire the many big and small ways...

In our final episode of the year, we speak with Rosemary Flannery about how to go from clutter to clarity while clearing a path to happiness and making space for more grace, ease and joy.

This is the perfect episode to inspire big and small ways to neatly put 2020 away and step into 2021 with clarity and vision, including:

  • The many ways an organized space can help you live your best life
  • How to get past the overwhelm with simple exercises
  • When and how to let go of things that no longer make you smile
  • Why turning a blind eye to a particular room may have a deeper meaning for you

Plus, Rosemary brings a holiday gift! Listen for an exclusive YPM free 60-min consultation offer.

Happy decluttering, space-making and warm wishes for the brightest future!


Making Space for the New

*This episode has been transcribed using AI. While we’ve cleaned it up, it may not be word-for-word  accurate.

[00: 00: 27]  Gennifer:  Hey YPMers, it's Gennifer and today Noreen and I have invited a guest on to help us talk about organization, which actually is very magical during the holiday season, because we're trying to pull it together and do all these really great things for people. And at the same time, it's a really perfect opportunity to let go of things you no longer need to make room for things that you do want in your life. So today we've invited Rosemary Flannery from clutter to clarity which is an organizational service. And she's going to explain to us today about why this matters to Your Practical Magic.

[00: 01: 02]  Hi, Rosemary. Welcome.

[00: 01: 03]  Rosemary:  Hi. Thank you. It's great to be here.

[00: 01: 05]  Noreen:  Thanks for joining us.

[00: 01: 06]  Rosemary:  Well, thanks for inviting me. I'm very excited to be talking about this with you,  and sharing with your audience on how they can feel a little bit lighter during the holiday season.

[00: 01: 15] Noreen:  Oh my God. That's something everybody wants. It feels so out of touch sometimes. So we're excited to bring this to people.

[00: 01: 22] Gennifer:  And one of the nice things is Rosemary is actually a super fan listener of ours and wanted to explain how organization can help you with your clarity in your mental wellness, in your spiritual wellness and your physical wellness.

[00: 01: 36]  Rosemary:  That's very true. There have been studies that have shown that your cortisol level goes up. If you're not really, if your space is really not organized,  and you're very stressed out. what I try to do is just help people in small ways, so they can feel a little bit more grounded in their space and have a vision.

[00: 01: 57]  Noreen:  I love the idea of the small ways, because I think one of the biggest obstacles to organization and decluttering can be that it's so overwhelming at times. And you just, it feels like it's easier to close the door, but as you're saying, it's costing us in some ways, it's this kind of monkey on your back. You know, it's funny, it's making me sorry, but it's making me just think about this Martha Beck exercise we have for coaching. And it's, it's a way in to help people understand what they're carrying around with them, even if they don't realize it. And I didn't even think about it when we were prepping for this it is this idea where you imagine something in your home, it could be a room.

[00: 02: 39]  It could just be a corner or something that you just. Willfully ignore kind of gives you the shutters and you're just like, Ugh. And you do this little visualization of what you'd like it to look like. And then you take a look at where that is a metaphor for your life.

[00: 02: 57]  Noreen:  So just what you're doing literally, and practically.

[00: 03: 01]  Rosemary:  Yes. Yes. Because very often,  I'll be discussing with someone on a consultation about an area that they're interested in working on, but then as we delve deeper into. what's going on with them, we actually do something completely different. And, it's very true that you can feel a little negative, unfortunately in certain areas of your space, because it's something that, you know, you're procrastinating on and you know, you should do it, but you don't feel like doing it or you don't know how, where to start.

[00: 03: 32] I can give an example of someone I know. I've been begging them to please let me come and help them because they've been, they said they have a guest room that they want to turn into a gift wrapping room and she'll know who I'm talking about when she hears this. and she said, every time she walks by that door, she feels very stressed out that's something that can totally be relieved because it's, you know, it fear sort of factors into that. But I think we all have that thing that bothers us. And once you tackle it with the help of somebody who's objective and non-judgmental, you can see that you can get some great results with something very small in a short amount of time.

[00: 04: 09]  Gennifer:  What is it that really keeps people from, what keeps people procrastinating and avoiding it? You know, is it the guilt of throwing things out? Is it the, fear that if you get rid of things or change things that you're not ready for that, or you're not ready to live that part of your life?

[00: 04: 25]  Or what is that exactly?

[00: 04: 27] Rosemary:  it can be all of those things, but I also think it could be,  you just don't know where to begin. It's overwhelming. And so it's much easier to keep piling things on a chair than to actually. Tackle those things on a chair and find a home for them. And that's the other issue is you keep piling that stuff up because you have no idea where to put it.

[00: 04: 48]  So it's almost like you have to build a foundation by clearing things out, to create space for the things that you want to keep. And then hopefully you get in the habit where when you take something out, you know where it goes and you can put it back instead of just throwing it somewhere.

[00: 05: 06]  Gennifer:  Yeah, look, I think the maintaining the habit is a, is a big thing. and it's, easier said than done. I think for individuals versus when you're a part of like a family and getting everyone to buy into that and participate in that way.

[00: 05: 19]  Rosemary:  I agree. I think that it definitely has challenges for both types but I do think living with a family definitely presents a bigger challenge and it has to be sort of a family decision, I think to do this because sometimes it's fruitless if the mother and father are on board, but the kids aren't.

[00: 05: 38]  And so the work that they're trying to do gets erased by kids, just coming in and dumping their stuff everywhere. But if you can sort of work with a family meeting and talk about respect for common spaces and respect for things, and maybe turned a blind eye to what the kids' rooms look like if they close their door, but as long as they can keep the common areas then you know, maybe that's the compromise.

[00: 06: 02] Noreen:  These are good, broad strokes, but I'd love to get back to, that first obstacle for so many of us, which is the overwhelm. And as you mentioned, the small steps, the breaking it down and tied to that. I was thinking. You know, your clientele by definition is self-selecting, they've already gotten past that because they've called you, you know, except for that one person with her soon to be gift wrapping room.

[00: 06: 28]  Rosemary:  Yes. well, you know, sometimes,  it's not their choice. Sometimes there's a, a life happening that causes them to have to make this decision. sometimes it is sort of an awakening within where,  you just realize  I have a client in London who just said to me, I want you to come over for a month because I want my flat to feel like I'm an adult.

[00: 06: 52]  And so she made an entire list of all the things she wanted done. While she was out working. And then I would work from that list and make it feel like a home and make it feel like it wasn't, you know, just a random thrown together place.

[00: 07: 09]  Noreen:  You know, it's funny because you just referred, like she said, I want my home to be w the words where I want to be an adult. Right. Like,

[00: 07: 16]  Rosemary:  it wasn't my home to feel like, Oh yeah, I want to be an

[00: 07: 18]  Noreen:  feel like an adult. But at the same time, as you just described that. So, you know, succinctly, I got such a soothing nurturing feeling from it. Like she, in her transition to want to be an adult.

[00: 07: 31]  She invested in that and almost bought a mother in a way, you know, like somebody who set it up for her and really helped that happen. I really left that, you know, like what a, what a beautiful self-care. Thing to do for yourself,  all in all, that's really, again, one of the tenants of our podcast is helping you connect to the support to live the life that you envision that you feel is calling you.

[00: 07: 58]  Rosemary:  Yes. And I think that, you know, we're so busy taking care of other people and other things that sometimes our own spaces get neglected and,  I wanted always project that someone's home is their Haven and it should be the place where they leave all that stress of work and life behind where they can just relax. one of my first questions when someone calls me or I do a consult is what is your vision? Show me a picture or just tell me what you want to feel when you walk in that space. And that gives me sort of a, a blueprint of how to go about helping them.

[00: 08: 37]  Noreen:  so this is very eye opening. Yeah, exactly. It really is right. Because Well, you're. curating. I'm not sure that's the word I want,  it's almost as if it's a creative brief, right? What is our end goal here, and I will figure out how to get us there and I'll work with you.

[00: 08: 52]  You're not steamrolling anyone. I go back to those small steps.

[00: 08: 56]  Rosemary:  That's totally true, but I do think curating is actually a good word for what I do because, you know, I worked in very various ways and very often it's side by side with my client, so we can go through things and it makes their decisions a little bit easier when someone is actually asking the questions and getting them to think about stuff.

[00: 09: 14]  It might take a little longer because of that process, but I think it really helps make better decisions. So, What I'm trying to do is get them to

[00: 09: 23]  keep the things that they really adore and really love and things that make them happy

[00: 09: 28]  and try to avoid the stuff that has bad memories and negative connotations that they might be keeping out of guilt, but giving them permission to say, it's okay to let that go.

[00: 09: 40]  Yeah, because I've definitely noticed,  from session to session that client, when I see clients, sometimes they can be very fearful and afraid and their whole demeanor feels a bit heavier. But then as we're going through, you can see that they're really brightening up and feeling lighter because they're seeing that this can be done.

[00: 10: 01]  And it's something that's to me, very simple, but to them, it's a huge breakthrough.

[00: 10: 07]  And that's really exciting.

[00: 10: 09] Gennifer:  yeah, it is. I mean, one of the things you were just saying before, you know, you ask people what's their vision. I think yesterday when we were just chatting before this, you were also talking about how do you want to feel and. One of my questions for you in, in how you do this is when you ask someone how they want to feel in their house.

[00: 10: 26]  Let's say they say calm. Is that a, usually a consistent thing for everybody? Is that like a consistent formula for what makes everyone feel calm? Meaning it's,  having a lot of space or maybe it's having, you know, everything kind of feel more like you're in a cozy cave, like, is that a consistent thing?

[00: 10: 45]  And how do you determine how to help someone with that?

[00: 10: 48]  Rosemary:  well, I think. Calm is definitely, or, or even just like spacious, you know, airy, those are kinds of words that people, will conjure up.

[00: 10: 58]  So talk about vision. We talk about, you know, what is it that they need to make the space better for them? Is it less stuff? Is it that they need shelves? You know, like sometimes it's a practical thing, like to get things off the floor because that makes a room feel very encroaching.

[00: 11: 16]  And many of my clients know that's kind of my mantra and that's where I start generally, I worked my way around the perimeter of a room and get things off the floor so we can clear a path to get to the other stuff.

[00: 11: 28]  Gennifer:  clear a path is very cool. I mean, you really are like a true transformation coach, right?

[00: 11: 34]  Rosemary:  Yeah.

[00: 11: 37]  yes. Literally and figuratively. Yeah. And

[00: 11: 39]  actually my slogan is, clearing the path to happiness.

[00: 11: 43]  Gennifer:  Oh, perfect. Yeah.

[00: 11: 44]  Noreen:  I love that. Clearing the path to happiness.

[00: 11: 47] Gennifer:  do you have any examples of, times where you helped someone do something and then like what that transformation was beyond? Just having a nice house or a nice office space.

[00: 11: 56] Rosemary:  sure. you know, something very, common is someone was moving and,  they did have a lot of items in their house. It was very crowded. It was a single person. And by clearing so much out, when realtors came through. They were getting offers like way over the asking price that he had about four or five offers, now see how wonderful the space was.

[00: 12: 20]  Yes. Yes, that was great. Also I worked with a family in Brooklyn where,  I worked in, uh, a dank, scary basement and transformed with the help of a contractor and their input, into a hangout space for their three boys. So it went from spiderweb, the dirt floor in all kinds of stuff to a finished basement with, you know, a flat screen and a, ping pong table.

[00: 12: 47]  And. we also created a storage closet for the things that we ended up keeping.

[00: 12: 51]  Noreen:  So the basement was full of stuff.

[00: 12: 53]  Rosemary:  Oh my gosh. Was it ever well, I mean, it was,

[00: 12: 58]  Noreen:  You're like to say the least.

[00: 13: 00]  Rosemary:  it was like, it was like something out of the Adams family, you know, in terms of like, it was packed with stuff, it was really, it was spiderweb and.

[00: 13: 08]  Dirty, but you know that you know how Brooklyn brownstone basements can be.

[00: 13: 13]  Noreen:  I do.

[00: 13: 15] Rosemary:  the difference was incredible

[00: 13: 16]  Gennifer:  That's so nice.

[00: 13: 18] Rosemary:  because I also not only just cleaned everything out and got rid of stuff, but also helped them with the configuration of how the space could be used best.

[00: 13: 26]  that was really

[00: 13: 27]  Noreen:  I was just going to ask that. So when they endeavored, you know, to tackle the mess or all the stuff in the seller, did they, know they were headed towards creating the family room

[00: 13: 37]  Rosemary:  No, it was always like, someday we want to do this, but they were able to actually attain that goal, I think much faster, because we were able to, you know, some date turned out to be like, maybe over the course of a year, as opposed to like

[00: 13: 54]  Noreen:  well, I think that's, that's another huge part of what you're saying. And, you know, we're talking about you as a professional, but these are things that people can do on their own, too. And it really is anchoring those dreams into goals through incremental progress.

[00: 14: 11]  We say progress, not perfection. Right.

[00: 14: 13]  Rosemary:  Yes. Yes. I'm glad you brought up the perfection part of that, because that's something that I think also scares people because they look at shows like. The home editor Marie Kondo at, or, you know, HGTV. And while I think that they all provide a great forum for inspiration, I think people are a little scared because they think, how can I live in this perfect house that, you

[00: 14: 40]  Noreen:  Okay. Right, right,

[00: 14: 42]  Rosemary:  acrylic box in my pantry and

[00: 14: 44] Noreen:  I want more than one toothbrush.

[00: 14: 46]  Rosemary:  Yeah, exactly. So what I try to do is, uh, lay that fear and show an I. Don't always create what I would think is perfect or what Martha Stewart might think is perfect, but it has to be perfect for my client. So I feel like I don't do a one size fits all.

[00: 15: 02]  I kind of customize according to how they want to live.

[00: 15: 08]  Gennifer:  adding on what's your goal? What's your, what's your dream? I mean, I like what you were saying before about anchoring your dream into your goal. Cause I don't think people do that enough, you know, self included. We've been talking about, you know, doing something. We don't have an upstairs.

[00: 15: 25]  It's like just banisters. I've never even been to cause you have to climb through the roof, the top of the roof to get to it. And for years, like, you know, just building up, having more space, but at the end of the day, Really what's in our house. We might be able to make work better, or have that dream of, you know, building up.

[00: 15: 41]  But again, it's, it's this procrastination,  or having a lot of excuses of why it can't happen. So I think that's really cool what you're doing, which is really shifting things.    Clearing that path to happiness, it's so cool.

[00: 15: 54]  Rosemary:  Yeah. I think vision and goals go hand in hand to show that those goals don't have to be, dreams they can actually happen,

[00: 16: 03]  Gennifer:  Yeah.

[00: 16: 03]  Rosemary:  I think the reason why people don't do it is because they are too busy. And might not be a priority, but when they work with someone like me, who can come in and give them some ideas and maybe show them a path that's not so difficult or help them get a contractor to come in and give them a bid or, I put together a Pinterest boards for people to give them inspiration that they can show to their contractors.

[00: 16: 25]  that sort of shows them that it's a possibility that they're not reinventing the wheel.

[00: 16: 29]  Gennifer:  And the Anderson thinking about the Pinterest board is also conserved as a vision board. Again, helping you, move towards your vision, your dreams, your goals. It can almost, you know, serve as that too. One question I had for you also is, you know, cause we're, again, we're doing this during the holiday season there's that week between Christmas and new year's that is, you know, pretty,

[00: 16: 50]  Noreen:  It’s a sacred week…

[00: 16: 54]  Gennifer:  yeah, I know, oh, it's a, it's a nice week to be reflective, to do this kind of work really.

[00: 16: 59]  ‘cause there's not, you know, all the hooplah for the most parts over with, and now you can kind of relax and then people are like, what do I do with myself? Well, here's something great you can do with yourself, right?

[00: 17: 10]  Noreen:  Instead of going and getting more crap,

[00: 17: 13] Rosemary:  That is true. 

What a great time to be, using that downtime to just sort of clear the decks for what you want to bring into in the new year? So what are some that our listeners can try some of these, exercises at home to declutter or get organized

[00: 17: 29]  and are those interchangeable

[00: 17: 31] Rosemary:  well, I think they go hand in hand, actually. I think you have to declutter before you can be organized.

[00: 17: 36]  Noreen:  Step one,

[00: 17: 38]  Rosemary:  exactly, exactly, but I think a very simple thing to do if you have a timer on your phone or your stove set it for 10 minutes and clear something, whether it's go through your mail,  put your, unload, your dishwasher,  that corner, that's building up things, you know, hang up those clothes, put them in the laundry, like.

[00: 18: 00]  Your address and see how much you can get done in 10 minutes. If you focus, you'd be really surprised you can actually get a lot done.

[00: 18: 07] Noreen:  I have done this on occasion. I don't have a super tight habit of doing it, but I have done it. And I'm always shocked at how much got done in 10 minutes.

[00: 18: 16]  Rosemary:  slowly but surely, you know?

[00: 18: 18]  Noreen:  Surely. Yes.

[00: 18: 20]  Rosemary:  because when you're going through things that have an emotional attachment.

[00: 18: 25]  Gennifer:  That's a great point.

[00: 18: 27] Rosemary:  But I think if there's something, I mean, that's bothering you for me. I can tell you, like recently my linen closet was bugging me with all my makeup. And I kept seeing all these cool. Container store acrylic, lazy Susans. And I wanted to buy one, but I thought they were too expensive, but I remembered I had one from my mom's house.

[00: 18: 46]  Like not exactly, but it was a lazy Susan had it in my garage with my storage stuff and I put it together and it changed my life about how I could, how I could access my things.

[00: 18: 55]  Noreen:  I've been there.

[00: 18: 57]  Rosemary:  it took me 10 minutes to do it and it was a small step, but has. Just given me so much that now when I go to dig out my moisturizer or whatever, I'm not having to move and, you know, have a Rube Goldberg type of situation.

[00: 19: 14]  Noreen:  Just that idea of,  you know, getting to that moment, you look at it and you're like, I can't take it not one more minute, you know, and kind of that gift to yourself right. Of how relaxing  getting to the other side. Of something can be,  I think we've almost all experienced the idea of like, just going not one

[00: 19: 34]  more minute, and I'm doing this right now and how meditative it is actually, you know, you get into this kind of flow.

[00: 19: 42]  It is not kind of, it's literally the flow space. They refer to it as the Tetris effect, some people could be like, it's my numbing, but actually you're going to a different brain state, which I believe is the theta state.

[00: 19: 57]  I'm trying to describe something that we've probably all felt, but it is definitely meditative and it's almost robotic, but it's because you're in this high performance state, actually, it's a, it's an athletic state. It's as close as I get to that state

[00: 20: 15]  where you're just like, yes. You're like, this goes here, this goes here. I know it. I know it like, boom, boom, boom.

[00: 20: 20]  Gennifer:  And this is going in the garbage.

[00: 20: 22]  Noreen:  Yeah, and you're just plowing through

[00: 20: 24]  Gennifer:  Thank you for your service.

[00: 20: 25]  Noreen:  Exactly. This is a large part of why we brought this to people

[00: 20: 30]  Rosemary:  Okay.

[00: 20: 32] Noreen:  These are the States that help transform you and take you from one place to another, both internally and externally.

[00: 20: 39] Gennifer:  It's funny. Cause as you were saying that, I was just thinking about from C and how often I've gotten myself in a tizzy about either something, whatever,

[00: 20: 48]  Noreen:  What do you mean? You don't get to say something, whatever on a podcast?

[00: 20: 51]  Gennifer:  And a triggering email from a family member or, writer's block.

[00: 20: 56]  Right. And it's like, right now I'm on fire and I need to go control something, if you will, and then all of a sudden you're like, I'm, you know, angrily cleaning up the living room. And then I feel good after, because I living room looks nice. I just kind of, you know, checked out right. Because my brain is now being used putting a pillow back in place and feeling like I have control over her situation.

[00: 21: 17]  And then when I, when I'm done I'm I can either reread that email and not be triggered this time. And it's, I'm reading it a different way, different tone, or maybe I'm finally coming up with the taglines I needed to come up with that I was kind of stuck on. So there is something,  as you said, Noreen, you know, the meditative, problem solving that comes from decluttering and organizing and going through that process and not, and not, you know, thinking so hard about it.

[00: 21: 41] Noreen:  Really what it comes down to is making space. Like that's what you've done. Sometimes you have to walk away from something and to create that shift. And what you're calling control is, is

[00: 21: 53]  Gennifer:  another way

[00: 21: 54]  Noreen:  restoring order.

[00: 21: 55]  right? Cause you've lost, you're centerdness yeah, you've become reactive. Right? So you do that and, and then you're able to, you know, you're able to go back in another state of mind and, and really accessed places that provide solutions in that transition time.

[00: 22: 12]  Gennifer:  It’s really true.

[00: 22: 13] Rosemary:  But I do think it has, it has to always be a mindset you know, I can tell sometimes when I'm working with a client that I'm doing something, but it's not going to stick 

[00: 22: 23]  Noreen:  That's okay.

[00: 22: 24] Rosemary:  That's, that's totally okay because they're the ones that have to live there and if they're okay with it.

[00: 22: 30]  So I, but I do agree with you. Like I have given yourself space when you're struggling with something and then walking away. Also good that if you're struggling to have somebody else help you with it, who is objective. Because then it moves it along. I have a client who is a perfectionist.

[00: 22: 50]  I mean, her house is immaculate and everything's organized. And I was really shocked when she hired me because I thought, what does she need me for? But she said, it's because I do this for an hour. And then I get bored and I go off to something else and it doesn't get done. But when I go to her home, which I kind of move in for a week because she lives out of state we work eight hours a day.

[00: 23: 12]  And she's so happy

[00: 23: 14]  Noreen:  Right. Yeah.

[00: 23: 20]  Yeah. You're flexing, you're flexing to other people's styles, which is really cool. I mean, she's all about discipline,

[00: 23: 25] I'd be like, okay, bye.

[00: 23: 29]  Rosemary:  no, she's, she's all like, let's do this, you know? So,  you know, we've moved refrigerators, we've moved all kinds of crazy things.  of each day.

[00: 23: 40]  Noreen:  lot of work. It is. It can be.

[00: 23: 42]  Rosemary:  Yeah.

[00: 23: 43]  Noreen:  literally your, it's a full-time job if you're doing it eight hours a day for a week.

[00: 23: 47]  Rosemary:  Right. And the other thing is, you know, I have to, I really have to, my clients have to trust me and we have to get along for someone to invite me into their home for a week,

[00: 23: 56]  Noreen:  Yeah.

[00: 23: 56]  Gennifer:  good point,

[00: 23: 57] Rosemary:  the way we sort of work is we work all day. And then at night I go into my room, which then another part of the house and like read or go to bed at nine o'clock, you know, so we all have our own space

[00: 24: 09] Gennifer:  But you're also doing virtual now, right?

[00: 24: 11]  Rosemary:  Yes actually, because of COVID. I am doing virtual. that gives me the flexibility to work anywhere in the world. I do have international clients, but normally I've. They fly me over. And so that's not happening right now, now, so we just scheduled time and I've been working with someone in the UK for well, since March and that's every week and that's been fun.

[00: 24: 33]  And at the end of this month, I'll be working with another UK client because no matter where you live, everybody has the same problem.

[00: 24: 41] Gennifer:  Is that true?

[00: 24: 42] Rosemary:  yeah, I think clutter is universal. Yes.

[00: 24: 46]  Gennifer:  that like, you know, somewhere like in France, they don't have, there's no such thing as a garage sale, you know, they don't, they don't, there's certain

[00: 24: 52]  Rosemary:  Brocom instead.

[00: 24: 56] Gennifer:  I've been shamed into thinking that I'm kidding.

[00: 24: 59]  Rosemary:  no, I think it's human nature. It just, you know, they might think good of your Rochelle is day class a or something who knows, but I think people do have issues Whenever I tell people what I do, they always say, Oh boy, could I use you?

[00: 25: 12]  And I'm like, well then do it. You know?

[00: 25: 20]  Gennifer:  They're like, yeah, you're right.

[00: 25: 23]  Noreen:  Oh, that is funny. 

[00: 25: 24]  Rosemary:  Okay. So our first, idea to claim your time during the holiday season is to set a small set a timer and just see what you can accomplish in 10 minutes. You'll be really surprised at how much you can do,

[00: 25: 37] Noreen:  It does not have to be eight hours a day for five

[00: 25: 39]  Rosemary:  No. No,

[00: 25: 41]  Noreen:  We can just start there. That's a great dose.

[00: 25: 44] Rosemary:  that woman is an exception. Most of my sessions are no more than four hours because I really feel people lose their momentum.

[00: 25: 52]  Noreen:  Oh, that's

[00: 25: 52]  Rosemary:  two hours. Yes. Yes.

[00: 26: 00]  Right. And two hours, you know, you, you spend some time discussing what needs to be done and then you actually make it happen. You know, with Christmas people still give presents, so you need to go through your space to, find homes for the new things that you yeah. And you know, so maybe you have 10 million mixing bowls and you got a great new set.

[00: 26: 21]  Maybe you need to revisit those mixing bowls and see which ones you really need.

[00: 26: 25]  Noreen:  It's time for 9 million  go.

[00: 26: 27]  Rosemary:  Exactly. I noticed I worked with a lot of people who work in the cooking industry and they all have various versions of the same thing because they find that, you know, this one, yes. Like this hand mixer is better than this one, but they don't get rid of them.

[00: 26: 44]  but I also understand that someone who, cooks often and then that's their profession, they need certain things  they need multipurpose tools.

[00: 26: 53]  Noreen:  Right. And there's subtle differences for them based

[00: 26: 55]  Rosemary:  Yes. Yes. So it's time. So, but, but then they'll look at it and say, well, you know, I bought that pan. I thought it was gonna be really great, but it really doesn't work.

[00: 27: 03]  So yeah. You know, you're right. Let's, let's get rid of that. Yeah. So that's the thing is make, make room for the new things that are coming into your life and let go of the things that no longer have any meaning.

[00: 27: 15] Noreen:  See, that has both physical and internal emotional impact as well. Double meaning. That's great. Okay. So we start with the 10 minutes and yeah. Just see how it goes and keep it moving, starting small.

[00: 27: 30] what about when you get stuck on stuff where you can, it's funny. It is. Yes. And like you can't, it's not

[00: 27: 38] Well,Rosemary:  depending on what it is, we talk about it. Sometimes when the person talks through what it is, what the attachment is, it brings up a lot of emotions and they then realize that it's something that is special to them. And if that's the case, then I say, well, then let's use that thing instead of hiding it in a closet or an attic, you know, if you want to honor someone and remember them, then use that item.

[00: 28: 04]  But make sure it's something that's meaningful. One client wanted to use a discussing lipstick because it was her because it was her mother's. And I just said, I think we have some nicer things that better memories of your mom than this.  So talking about what it is can make a decision and guide you into whether you should keep something or not.

[00: 28: 26]  Gennifer:  I'm taking a picture as an example. Right.

[00: 28: 29]  Rosemary:  Yes, Taking a picture or

[00: 28: 31]  Noreen:  I was going to say, making some artwork with that lipstick. That's what I would have done.

[00: 28: 34]  Gennifer:  that's cool.

[00: 28: 35] Rosemary:  Yeah, I didn't want to touch it. I thought it was pretty gross. I agree with you. I think, taking a photo of something and I recommend that quite often, if it's something that you physically don't need anymore. but it has some sort of attachment for you, but it's not something you really want to keep, then definitely take a photo of it.

[00: 28: 51]  So you always have that image. If you ever need to go back to it also, depending on what the item is, sometimes you can repurpose it into something else you know, you need to get a little creative, but it's not impossible. That is the fun part. my mom, took some of my clothes and made them into a quilt for me.

[00: 29: 09] those are clothes that I had outgrown as an adult, but they were really fun patterns and they had memories of my time in the UK. And so I'm really glad that she did it. It it's a great memory to have from her.

[00: 29: 22]  Gennifer:  that's so sweet.

[00: 29: 24] Rosemary:  if you're not sure of something and you're not ready to let it go, I also suggest that you put something away, perhaps put it in a box market, then set a timer on your ICL or your Google calendar and then revisit it in six months and see how you felt living without it.

[00: 29: 42] Because if you didn't miss it, then chances are, you're probably ready to get rid of it. But if when you open that box and you're like, Oh wow, this is so exciting, then keep it, but find a way to make it more beneficial in your life. More useful.

[00: 29: 56]  Noreen: it's like a personal time capsule. I like it.

[00: 29: 59]  Rosemary:  It is. And it's a good test to show us that we really don't need that much.

[00: 30: 05] I don't want to go off on a tangent on consumerism, but, I think we tend to overbuy a lot of things when we really don't need to, because things are cheap

[00: 30: 12]  Gennifer:  Mm

[00: 30: 13] Rosemary:  to me, I don't care how cheap something is if I don't need it, you know, I say no. And I think saying no is also a big thing, because we were talking earlier about guilt and gift giving.

[00: 30: 26] if someone gives you something. You can appreciate what they gave you. And you can appreciate where the place, where that came from and the love that came from that person. But if it's not your taste and you don't feel like comfortable asking them for an exchange, then just give it to someone who will appreciate it and embrace it.

[00: 30: 46]  And just always remember that someone thought of you and be appreciative of that.

[00: 30: 50]     My aunt always says to me because I live in small spaces,

[00: 30: 54] remember the love, get rid of the gift.

[00: 30: 59]  Noreen:  you know, that really goes on the heels of our episode about meaningful and presence oriented presence, If you can have it experience, if you have something that resonates for you to enjoy that, but to let go of what doesn't serve in that way. Because these things have purpose also, to your aunts, uh, saying it doesn't reflect on the intention of the gift and the, love that was provided in that exchange.

[00: 31: 27]  But, you know, it gives this opportunity for this object to go have a purpose and make someone else happy, which then reduces consumerism

[00: 31: 36]  Rosemary:  Yes.

[00: 31: 36]  Noreen:  somebody doesn't have to go buy something.

[00: 31: 38]  Rosemary:  And you'd be surprised like you might get received something that you think is really not quite your style, but a friend of yours would be like, Oh my gosh, this is fantastic. And so that makes you feel good that someone appreciates it and, on the flip side, I have a lot of clients who won't get rid of things because it costs a lot of money and I'm like, that's great.

[00: 31: 57]  But how many, how long ago did it cost a lot of money and it didn't retain its value.

[00: 32: 02]  Noreen:  It's depreciated. Right.

[00: 32: 03] Rosemary:  and what good is it if you're not going to use it or aware it, So what, to kind of get over the whole financial thing. I think. eBay has made people think that everything they own is worth a lot of money

[00: 32: 18]  Noreen:  Nope. Nope.

[00: 32: 20]  Rosemary:  I think sentimental value is much more a premium sometimes.

[00: 32: 25]  Right. Another idea is to think of things that you have that you like, and you would eventually, maybe I know this might be a bit morbid, but you might want to give, just leave to someone when you die. and there's a. thing called Swedish death cleaning, where the premise is, you get rid of those things or you gift those things to people you love before you die.

[00: 32: 50]  So you can see them enjoy them.

[00: 32: 52]  Noreen:  That's awesome.

[00: 32: 53]  Rosemary:  and then you don't have the leave that burden on your family to have to clear things out. So it's actually a really nice

[00: 33: 02]  Noreen:  that can happen too, you know that it's already all, all cleared away.

[00: 33: 06]  Rosemary:  Exactly. Exactly. So I think that's a really nice way. And that's something that my mother did before we even knew it was a thing,

[00: 33: 13]  Noreen:  and she's not even Swedish.

[00: 33: 16]  Rosemary:  no, she's not.

[00: 33: 17]  but you know, we decided a long time ago to not give Christmas gifts anymore. And because we decided we didn't need anything. but she felt like she had some. You know, family heirlooms, if you will, that she thought we might appreciate. So every Christmas we would get some things. You know, I have a picture from my grandmother that I love.

[00: 33: 36]  There's sometimes they're mundane things, but they mean a lot because you have that memory of seeing them in your mother's kitchen or what have you.

[00: 33: 44]  Gennifer:  Exactly.

[00: 33: 45]  Noreen:  transforms them way beyond the mundane. Exactly. So this is what we're talking about. All right. I love that. Okay. So that's going to be our dose for you guys with this episode is the 10 minute timer in conjunction with the six month time capsule. Right? So together, if you have any babies while you're going through those 10 minutes, Intervals, that appointment.

[00: 34: 10]  And we're going to check in on you in June.

[00: 34: 15]  Exactly.

[00: 34: 16]  Rosemary:  Yeah.

[00: 34: 16] Noreen:  And how are they performing?

[00: 34: 20]  Rosemary:  well, accountability is always good.

[00: 34: 22]  Noreen:  Yeah, that's great. That's awesome. And we have, I have one more dose that we could potentially help you with if you'd like to take advantage of it.

[00: 34: 30]  Rosemary has generously. Expanded her consultation for new clients or potential new clients from 15 minutes to an hour for YPM listeners. And so should you wish to consult her for her services .

[00: 34: 45]  Reach out to her at, from clutter to clarity with the number two. let me say that again from clutter to number two, and referenced this episode, or use the code YPM 60,

[00: 35: 08]  Gennifer:  Yeah, that's really generous and exciting.

[00: 35: 11]  Rosemary:  Well, I hope Jennifer, you will be one of my first people.

[00: 35: 19]  Gennifer:  he's the troublemaker around here with the mess.

[00: 35: 22] Rosemary:  we could do a whole, a whole podcast just on couples

[00: 35: 27]  it's usually one, one is neat and one is not, and that's the conflict.

[00: 35: 31]  So I work with each person individually.

[00: 35: 33]  Noreen:  Every pot has its lid.

[00: 35: 35]  Rosemary:  Yes.

[00: 35: 36]  Yes, it does.

[00: 35: 37]  Gennifer:  That is true.

[00: 35: 39]  Gennifer:  So one thing that we are adding to our,  offerings for our listeners also is that you can go to and check out our blogs.

[00: 35: 48]  And we have a special blog from Rosemary. That's going to be live. And in there, you'll see some other, organization and decluttering tips  related to, you know, the holiday stress  there might be some things in there that you can apply anytime of the year.

[00: 36: 02]  She's going to be able to give you all kinds of additional ideas of ways that you can take little turtle steps into making these positive changes and clearing that path to happen. we are, you know, getting towards the end of the year and Rosemary, do you have any

[00: 36: 17]  exciting plans for your business in 2021?

[00: 36: 20]  Rosemary:  Well, I am going to enter the webinar world.

[00: 36: 24]  Gennifer:  Very cool.

[00: 36: 25]  Rosemary:  it's something I've been mulling about and I think I'm going to just jump into it and see what happens.

[00: 36: 30]  I be fun.

[00: 36: 31]  Gennifer:  I think that's amazing. And what did you clean your house to get you to get to that decision?

[00: 36: 37]  Rosemary:  well I'm it's just that because I can't be with people in person right

[00: 36: 42]  Gennifer:  Yeah.

[00: 36: 43]  Rosemary:  that it's a good way to, to,  build a practice with the people, get this to be part of their life. Something like brushing their teeth

[00: 36: 51]  where you don't think about it, you just do it.

[00: 36: 54]  Gennifer:  I'm sure I'll be one of the people signing up.

[00: 36: 57]  Rosemary:  I hope so.

[00: 37: 07]  Gennifer:  Yes.

[00: 37: 08]  Rosemary:  It's funny you should say that because one of the things that I was going to do is, you just come and bring your decluttering problems and we talk about it, you know, like little support group.

[00: 37: 15]   and everybody's got an issue, so like show me your kitchen cabinet that you, everything falls out or, and your mismatched, you know, Tupperware and let's talk about it and let's, let's deal with it.

[00: 37: 27]  Gennifer:  The mismatched Tupperware might be the only thing where my entire family's on board at the same page.

[00: 37: 33]  That was our turtle step.

[00: 37: 35]  Rosemary:  Good.

[00: 37: 36] Noreen:  That's very cool. I know when I realized, like getting, I mean, not that my pots and pans were on the floor, but I recently decided to just get a wall mounted pot rack because my ceiling isn't high enough to have a standard one. And then the result was getting the pots out of this drawer that I just never, ever wanted to go into.

[00: 37: 54]  And it's so neat that I am so happy every time I open it. So yeah. And that probably took, it was two drawers. So maybe it took an hour. Once I had, once the rack was up, it was amazing.

[00: 38: 07]  Gennifer:  That's great.

[00: 38: 07]  Rosemary:  Small steps.

[00: 38: 09]  Noreen:  Okay. We want to inspire you guys.  share your photos and

[00: 38: 12]  tell us what you're doing. Tell us how you're creating more space in your world, in your life and what is coming from it.

[00: 38: 19]  All right.

[00: 38: 20]  Gennifer:  I'm inspired.

[00: 38: 22]  Noreen:  Thank you so much, Rosemary.

[00: 38: 23]  Yeah, I'm inspired

[00: 38: 24]  Rosemary:  Oh, well, thank you. No.

[00: 38: 31]  Noreen:  and go live in a tent.

[00: 38: 34]  So thanks again for a wonderful episode and until next time.